speydazed wrote:heck a gline s4/s5 does not sink as deeply as a type 8 or t-14.
Are you talking about the s4/s5 Power taper heads or the s4/s5 ddc tips?
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Discussions and topics that relate to the art and practice of Spey Double-Handed Fly Fishing. Methods, spey gear and advice concerning a very wide range of Spey Fishing topics.
by peter-s-c » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:11 am
I'm not sure what he's talking about, but an S4/5 full sink head will get much, much deeper than a typical 15', Type 8 tip. I've hung up an S4/5 in about 15' of water in the Niagara and a 15' Type 8 tip would have to go almost straight down to achieve that -- a position that would be impossible in those same currents.
However, "Will a DDC intermediate with an S4/5 tip get deeper?" is an interesting question. The correct response is, "It depends on how the DDC is fished."
Tip weight is an important consideration too. 8/9 DDC 15' tips weigh about 145 grains and the heavier the tip, the more it sinks. So comparing a heavy S4/5 tip against a light Type 8 could result in both of them reaching the same depth when both are hung off the end of a Windcutter. It's only really meaningful if we compare 15' tips of the same weight. If they are of the same weight, then an S4/5 tip on the end of a Windcutter won't run as deep as a Type 8. (This is also assuming that we're using the same fly on both systems.)
The vital thing to remember, a fact that Speydazed always fails to realize, is that the BACK END OF A SINKTIP IS HELD UP BY A FLOATER BELLY! (emphasis added for his benefit). That fact inherently limits the maximum depth a 15' sinktip can achieve, to a relatively narrow range.
With that in mind, if the DDC belly is well sunk, then the presentation with the S4/5 will run deeper than a Windcutter + Type 8 tip. If the DDC belly is only down a bit, then the depths being achieved will depend on the circumstance, with either one running deeper depending on the conditions and the angler's usage.
As an example, if we cast both downstream at a 45 degree angle, then it's likely a toss-up as to which will be deeper at mid-swing.
If we cast both of them square to the current, then the DDC + S4/5 will end up deeper as the DDC belly will have the time to get down. Of course, the Windcutter belly will continue to float, no matter what angle we cast it at. Casting angle has no effect on the Windcutter. Even mending the Windcutter like mad, won't have the same efffect as the sinking DDC belly.
If we put the Type 8 on the DDC, then it will get much deeper than a Windcutter + Type 8.
Last edited by peter-s-c on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
by peter-s-c » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:04 am
I had originally typed out a long reply to all of your points, but I deleted it as it would've been a waste of electrons to send. It is obvious that your only agenda here is to be argumentative and disruptive for the sake of it. I have patiently replied to your posts, but all I've received from you in return was ill-informed, sneering, and sarcastic replies. I no longer wish to waste my time in replying to you so this will be my last one.
I will also remind you of the comments made by Red and speyrod1, that your type of behaviour is very corrosive to forums like these. It is a significant disincentive for newcomers to join into discussions and it drives good people away. In some forums, you would have been banned for your behaviour.
We would welcome a positive contribution from you.
by brwntrt1219 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:14 am
Its all I used all fall and it worked fine for me.
by speyrod1 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:11 pm
im here to learn as much as possible and the only thing i have learned in your last few posts is my grandson doesnt throw himself as much as you have
im new to the technics of spey casting and i do alright considering how long i have been at it
you being a different style then me i would enjoy reading your findings as it may help me out with my learning curve as many others would appreciate it also
by speydazed » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:27 pm
i did post some findings on tests my partner did, using no tips,polys, type 8's, t-14 and big boys. that seemed to have been glossed over, so it has been replaced with something kinder, and more lemming like
by Redneck Scholar » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:26 pm
This is a key concept, and not good or bad--just a difference. One of the great values of sink-tips is that they make it easier for the angler to maintain consistent swing depth. When first cast, you can get 'em too deep if you give too much slack or for too long, but the swing depth is consistent (the surface anchor will pull the tip back up). There's a useful article in the December Fly Fisherman magazine about sink-tip swing depth for any interested in understanding how deep sink-tips really swing. Sink-tips are less technically challenging to keep at a particular depth because they always anchor to the surface. I like them when fishing with less experienced anglers and/or when I'm not likely to be paying close attention to my presentation.
by peter-s-c » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:03 pm
Good point worth emphasizing.
It's also worth repeating that no one is suggesting that anyone give up their sinktips, rather add full sinkers to the arsenal -- it's not "either - or", it's "both". I fish a lot of sinktips in the early season when I want to present a minnow pattern about a foot or so under, fairly fast, and broadside to the current.
Also, Skagiteers can go the full sink route as well. The Perry Poke is my favourite recovery cast for a botched Underhand and it works real well. Full sinkers have gobs of line stick for a good rod loading, plus when a PT head is used full length, it's heavy. A 10/11 PT head at 44' is roughly 740 grains -- plenty for most Skagit rods -- and there's an 11/12 available as well.
by Barry » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:44 pm
There is some great information to be had in this string of posts. For some reason or another, things went bad. So, I deleted a few posts. I'm also going to lock the thread for a while. Once things settle down I'll open it back up.
by shotgunner » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:04 am
"Red is there a link to that article you mentioned" Posted by speyrod1
Just made available by Bob Pauli & Tom Keelin. Very generous of them.
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