Bearings

[Bow Buster]

I was wondering if anyone has heard of the new ABEC 9 Swiss German hybrid bearings. I've heard through the grape vine that these things are the schiznit. I'd like to get a set for one of my reels. Anyone have a link?

Thanks

[Paine Falls]

Brings a new meaning to asymptotic limits.

I would love to be privlidged to such information as well if anyone has it. Always looking for bearing options.

[Frogpoop]

>>>>asymptotic<<<<< leaves me scratching my pickle head...
is it catch able?

[Bill Shearer]

Definition: Asymptotic is an adjective meaning 'of a probability distribution as some variable or parameter of it (usually, the size of the sample from another distribution) goes to infinity.'
I still can't figure it out!

[Frogpoop]

I got a big Ol glass of Crown and a cube and I still cant sypher it out..
now you just made it muddier..

[Bow Buster]

I was a bit skeptical when I heard about these bearings. I wanted to make a post here to see if anyone has any feedback about them ie, price, avalibility, and how's the start-up with these things. I'm thinking of upgrading my bearings in my Islander.

Thanks

[Centerpin]

Perhaps make a call to some bearing suppliers like BOCA or such and see if they have any juice on these bearings, its their industry and they are likely to know about anything new whether they sell it or not.

worth a shot.

[Paine Falls]

Please excuse the grammar/punctuation inaccuracies below. Trying to be quick.

Bearings defined from discussions with bearing experts.

ABEC ratings are strictly tolerance ratings.

For the sake of discussion the following isn't accurate, but more of a method to convey in layman's terms. I.E. ABEC 3 bearings may have ±.0005" on tolerances applied to the races. ABEC 5 bearings would have ± .00025" tolerance to bearing races. ABEC 7 bearings would have ± .00015" applied to bearing races.

The difference between the abec 5's and 7's are in the race grind tolerances. Surface finish of bearings races are the same, but held to tighter tolerances. The actual ball used in the bearing is the same tolerance applied to an ABEC 5 as to an ABEC 7.

Here is a quick excerpt from a website discussing ABEC ratings.

The ABEC scale is a system of rating the manufacturing tolerance of precision bearings. The system was developed by the Annular Bearing Engineering Council (ABEC), a division of the American Bearing Manufacturers' Association ABMA). The ABMA was formerly known as the Anti-Friction Bearing Manufacturers' Association. Bearings rated under the ABEC systems are typically called "precision bearings", with a rating or class from 1 to 9. ABEC 1 meets a looser tolerance and ABEC 9 meets high precision tight bearing tolerances. ABEC class is not to be confused with radial play.

So at this point, one has to decide what does "Quality" mean? Does it mean the most expensive, high tolerance bearing produced? Does it mean the cheapest functional bearing? Does it mean the bearing that is moderately priced that does not affect start up and doesn't result in a reel costing an astronomical price?

What I see happening since I started to dabble in the reel making business just last year is that last year, the fad was ABEC 5 bearings. I mutually agree that this is an awesome bearing level, but this year both consumers and retailers are asking me about abec 7's as a standard option. The difference between 5 and 7's are about $20-$40 per reel and the return on the investment is a reel that much more expensive or reel manufacture looses that much to be on the percieved forefront of reel building to have a market advantage. The performance difference is minimal to a point you need lab equipement that can measure angular momentum in a controlled environment. We are using these bearings to possibly 10% of their intended performance levels. These bearings were designed for light load application at about 15-20,000 rpms. Give me an abec 9 bearing and I can make it act like it has sand in it just on it's fit relationship with the bore. The overall startup of a reel is the result of many design inputs, bearings are just one of them.

This is what I referred to as a new meaning to asymptotic limits. The definition in this instance is approaching a given value as an expression containing a variable tends to infinity. So as we reduce tolerance and demand abec7+ bearings, the payback is limited to the grand goal of perfect start up.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. It is my theory that makes my reel what it is perceived. I will put abec 7 or 9's in my reels, but I will pass on the cost increase.

[rory479]

Frog my advise to you is to start drinking heavily.

[CplG]

I am a bit confused I can pick up a set of pillow block bearings that hold a shaft at 3500 rpms and these bearings can last for decades in HVAC equiptment with continuous run times.

How are centerpins destroying bearings that people are looking to upgrade them to ones with such extreme tolerances. Is it due to the fact of the size of the bearings and issues with heat with them being confined in a small space. I highly doubt a pin spins with such RPM even on the hottest fish that these bearings are getting blown out.
If so that would be one 747 of a fish running down a runway looking for take off.

Or is this more of a attempt to get the perfect startup on a reel with eliminating any chance of the reel not getting a good start up.
Im not trying to start anything with this just unsure of how much of a bearing is really needed.

Im sure a pin that isnt in balance can and will destroy bearings but would think you would have to bang that thing around to get it out of balance, unless a pin was not balanced on design.I cant see production reels coming out not in balance.

[Paine Falls]

I am a bit confused I can pick up a set of pillow block bearings that hold a shaft at 3500 rpms and these bearings can last for decades in HVAC equiptment with continuous run times.

How are centerpins destroying bearings that people are looking to upgrade them to ones with such extreme tolerances. Is it due to the fact of the size of the bearings and issues with heat with them being confined in a small space. I highly doubt a pin spins with such RPM even on the hottest fish that these bearings are getting blown out.
If so that would be one 747 of a fish running down a runway looking for take off.

Or is this more of a attempt to get the perfect startup on a reel with eliminating any chance of the reel not getting a good start up.
Im not trying to start anything with this just unsure of how much of a bearing is really needed.

Im sure a pin that isnt in balance can and will destroy bearings but would think you would have to bang that thing around to get it out of balance, unless a pin was not balanced on design.I cant see production reels coming out not in balance.

I agree. I am not trying to start anything either.

I would think that one of the advantages of pillow block style bearings is they have actual seals which retain grease in the bearings not just a light high viscous lubricant such as used in centerpins. PM increases allowing for longevity. We are forced to accept that we are going to use sheilded bearings that allow for "micro" debris to freely travel throughout bearing.

Ultra high precision bearing use is driven by the desire for the best start up. The best startup in my opinion is the result of bearing retention method, bearing quality, and spool retention. I feel going beyond ABEC 5 is unnecessary and is far beyond the requirements needed to achieve a reel with excellent startup.

The bearings used in a pin are far more robust to withstand any balance issues from little to severe. These bearings are designed to withstand 20K rpms at 250-500lb side loads and the driving force for tighter tolerances is to increase the durability to with stand higher rpms and higher loads.

[float_angler]

So even if I put a ABEC 9 Swiss German hybrid bearings on my
15' GLX it's not going to fish better? Dang! jk...really I'm kiddin'

I've never changed or upgraded a bearign before unless of course
it came with them pre-installed ie) islader w/bardens

I don't beat on my reels (I don't throw them down on rocks anymore)
but still habitually submerge them in the water when I land a fish.
And after sometime berings just don't spin like they used to.
Due to water? Debris?

So I was looking for options.

Q - why a such wide price gap between some berings and some of
them within a same ABEC rating?

Q - ABEC 5 = Best bang for a buck?

I'm looking to do a couple of Spahrs and a older Stream Master.

I think John comes on here sometimes...John? What were the
"OEM" berings on your reels?

[SSG Steelhead]

I think at this point I need a degree of some sort to follow this....
At what point does it become too much?
Will I reqiure some sort of "higher education" to hit the water with my pin from now on? I guess I buy a good reel in hopes that they have done all of this for me and I can play "stupid guy who hooks fish and gets out of the house sometimes"

[Tot'edup]

I would think that one of the advantages of pillow block style bearings is they have actual seals which retain grease in the bearings not just a light high viscous lubricant such as used in centerpins. PM increases allowing for longevity..[/quote]


Grease in winter, Those are for higher speed applications and a typically run hot
Your running cold VERY COLD.
lhv lube is what you want?

[Paine Falls]

I would think that one of the advantages of pillow block style bearings is they have actual seals which retain grease in the bearings not just a light high viscous lubricant such as used in centerpins. PM increases allowing for longevity..

Grease in winter, Those are for higher speed applications and a typically run hot
Your running cold VERY COLD.
lhv lube is what you want?[/quote]


In cpin's I use sewing machine oil, but I am going to dable with graphite as soon as I remember to buy some.